IT Executive. Unrepentant Traditional Catholic. Unashamed American.
Joined November 2013
- Tweets8.2K
- Following234
- Followers185
- Likes11.6K
Since becoming and trying to stay a devout Catholic (weekly mass attendance, regular confession, Liturgy of the Hours [Lauds, Vespers, Compline] and a daily rosary), I have noticed that I have a sense of inner peace and stability in my life that I never knew was missing.
I am not sure why cradle Catholics throw away this beautiful gift we are given. Life becomes so much simpler when we just do what God commands.
And to all the atheists and Pagans who talk about "Sky Daddy" and "taking away freedom", well, I do not really care. It has improved my life and I am assured of the state of my immortal soul. Same goes for Protestants, tbh. I do not care what you think of the Church, I believe it is the Church Christ established, and arguments against that will not be entertained.
I asked Grok to conduct the following analysis of the TLM vs the NO masses. The response was very enlightening. I leave the prompt and results here for your consideration.
Prompt: Not taking into account aesthetic changes (orientation of the priest, chant vs hymns, vernacular vs Latin, etc), examining the entire liturgy of both the Tridentine Mass (1962 missal) and the Novus Ordo mass (current missal), are there any significant, core or structural liturgical differences between the two. Do not rely on opinion pieces of others, conduct your own independent logical analysis.
Results in next post
3. Liturgy of the Word (Readings and Related Elements)
Tridentine: Typically one scriptural reading (the Epistle, from the New Testament or occasionally prophets), followed by chants (Gradual, Alleluia/Tract/Sequence as applicable), then the Gospel. The homily is optional/not integral to the Ordo Missae. The Creed follows the Gospel (when prescribed). No universal intercessions as a fixed structural element.
Novus Ordo: Expanded and variable. On Sundays and solemnities: Old Testament reading + Responsorial Psalm + New Testament reading (Epistle) + Gospel Acclamation + Gospel. Weekdays generally have two readings + psalm (or one + psalm). The homily is a required/expected element after the Gospel. The Creed follows (Nicene or optional Apostles’ Creed). It concludes with the Prayer of the Faithful (General Intercessions), which is a standard structural part.56
Difference: The Novus Ordo structurally incorporates more Scripture (additional reading + psalm), makes the homily integral, adds the Creed as a consistent option with alternatives, and includes the Prayer of the Faithful as a core element of the Word liturgy. The Tridentine has a shorter, chant-interspersed single-reading pattern.
4. Preparation of the Gifts (Offertory)
Tridentine: Detailed and sequential. After the Creed/Offertory antiphon: separate prayers for offering the bread (Suscipe, sancte Pater), wine (Deus qui humanae substantiae), In spiritu humilitatis, invocation of the Holy Spirit (Veni, Sanctificator), incensing of gifts/altar/people (with specific prayers), Lavabo (hand-washing with Psalm verses), Suscipe, sancta Trinitas (offering to the Trinity), Orate, fratres, and the Secret (prayer over the offerings, said quietly).
Novus Ordo: Simplified. Gifts are brought forward; brief blessing formulas for bread and wine; optional incensing and hand-washing; Orate, fratres equivalent (“Pray, brothers and sisters”); and a single Prayer over the Offerings (said aloud). No equivalent to the separate Suscipe sancte Pater, Suscipe sancta Trinitas, or full Lavabo psalm sequence as fixed elements.45
Difference: The Tridentine has an elaborate, multi-prayer offertory sequence with specific invocations and offerings; the Novus Ordo streamlines it into a briefer preparation with fewer fixed prayers.
5. Eucharistic Prayer (Canon/Anaphora)
Tridentine: Single fixed Roman Canon (mostly low/silent voice). It follows a precise, unvarying sequence after the Preface and Sanctus: Te igitur, Memento (living), Communicantes (saints), Hanc igitur, Quam oblationem, institution narrative (Qui pridie / Simili modo), Unde et memores, Supra quae, Supplices te rogamus, Memento (dead), Nobis quoque, Per quem haec omnia, and final doxology (Per ipsum).
Novus Ordo: Multiple Eucharistic Prayers available (at minimum four standard ones, plus others for specific occasions). Eucharistic Prayer I is the Roman Canon (with minor adaptations). Others (e.g., II, III, IV) have different lengths, emphases, and internal ordering—particularly the position of the epiclesis (invocation of the Spirit) relative to the institution narrative. All include standardized elements: Preface dialogue + Preface + Sanctus, epiclesis, institution narrative + consecration, anamnesis with Memorial Acclamation (by the people), offering, intercessions, and doxology (Great Amen by the people). The prayer is generally proclaimed more audibly.37
Difference: From one fixed Canon to multiple options with varied internal structures and greater congregational acclamations.
6. Communion Rite (Peace, Fraction, and Distribution)
Tridentine: After the Canon: Pater Noster (with embolism Libera nos), Pax Domini (brief), commixtion, Agnus Dei (during fraction), Domine, non sum dignus (three times by priest before his communion), private communion prayers, then distribution to the faithful.
Novus Ordo: After the Eucharistic Prayer doxology: Lord’s Prayer + embolism, expanded Sign of Peace (assembly exchanges peace), fraction with Agnus Dei, Ecce Agnus Dei (“Behold the Lamb of God”), Domine, non sum dignus (once, with congregational response), then distribution and Prayer after Communion.
Difference: The Sign of Peace is repositioned (before Agnus Dei and made more communal in the Novus Ordo) and the fraction/communion prayers are adjusted in sequence and repetition.
7. Concluding Rites
Tridentine: Postcommunion prayer, Ite, missa est (or Benedicamus Domino), blessing, and the Last Gospel (always John 1:1–14, recited by the priest). Leonine prayers were sometimes added after (optional in 1962 context).
Novus Ordo: Prayer after Communion, optional brief announcements, blessing (simple or solemn options), and dismissal with varied formulas (e.g., “Go forth, the Mass is ended,” “Go and announce the Gospel of the Lord,” etc.), emphasizing mission. No Last Gospel.
Difference: The Tridentine includes the fixed Last Gospel as a structural conclusion; the Novus Ordo has a shorter, mission-oriented dismissal without it.
Summary of Core/Structural Differences
The two rites share the same essential elements of the Roman liturgical tradition (entrance/greeting, Kyrie/Gloria, readings + Gospel, Creed, offertory/preparation, Eucharistic Prayer with consecration, Agnus Dei, communion, blessing/dismissal). However, the Novus Ordo restructured the framework for greater clarity and participation in specific ways: it expanded and reorganized the Word section, simplified and altered the offertory prayers, introduced multiple Eucharistic Prayer options with standardized acclamations, repositioned and expanded the peace rite, removed the Last Gospel, and shifted from a two-part (catechumens/faithful) model with a fixed Canon to a four-part model with options.
These are not superficial variations but differences in the order, content, sequence, and architecture of the liturgical actions and prayers themselves. The core sacrificial mystery (offering, consecration, communion) remains intact in both, but the surrounding rite has been reconfigured in substantive ways.
MoonfireArt retweeted
First effect of the SSPX Consecrations: the pope remembers the language of the Church.
Necessitas arctioris cooperationis inter christifideles coram hodiernis provocationibus, sicuti pace, recto novarum artium usu, creatorum cura, ex ipso Iesu Christi Evangelio oritur: officium enim vitae ac dignitatis uniuscuiusque tuendae, praesertim minimorum et egentium, ratio est, quae de sorte nostra praesenti et aeterna decernit (Mt 25, 31-46). #ChristianorumUnitas
This entire situation with the #FSSPX could have been completely avoided if Vatican 2 was more strictly implemented.
The #NovusOrdo Did not have to be reimagined like a protestant worship service. The Curia could have simply taken the Tridentine Mass, *exactly as-is*, and simply translated it into the vernacular. Gregorian Chant could have even been kept in Latin. Ad Orientum could have been kept and still understandable to the laity because microphones exist.
I am not the smartest guy in the world, so why could I figure this out and not our Bishops? The SSPX would not have even had a reason to exist. Their only remaining objection would be the Latin, and that is easily countered because the Mass was originally in Greek anyway. Languages adapt, the traditions should not.
“Brothers and Sisters, let us acknowledge our sins as we prepare to celebrate the sacred mysteries…”
Proceeds to give a homily comparing the Gospel to the World Cup..
The #NovusOrdo , everybody…
Of course Promeia can totally kick up to [Write Promeia's flying kick height here]! #JudgesFlyingKickTraining Zenless Zone Zero Version 2.8 Is Out Now! Download: hoyo.link/aSOkFIAL #zzzero
Catholics, a question for you. Have you ever had the experience after Mass wheee some of the liturgy echoes in your head for days afterwards? Kinds of like those brainworm songs you can’t stop?
I am still in RCIA but this has been happening to me since my first Mass. especially the Gloria.
so @JesseCox not only decided to shove his political stance down everyone’s throats today (“gaming” cc, btw), he also decided to block me because I am not a raging leftist. I guess he just wanted his community to be a giant echo chamber. Really embracing those Reddit values.
I bet TB is rolling in his grave, god rest his soul. I may not have agreed with him on a lot of things, but he at least was willing to hear different opinions and kept his politics separate from gaming content.
MoonfireArt retweeted
🚨 MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR JACOB FREY RESPONDS TO TRUMP: “The job of our police is to keep people safe, not enforce fed immigration laws. I want them preventing homicides, not hunting down a working dad who contributes to MPLS & is from Ecuador. It’s similar to the policy your guy Rudy had in NYC. Everyone should feel safe calling 911.”
🚨 FREY SAYS MINNEAPOLIS WON’T ENFORCE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS
TRUMP: Surprisingly, Mayor Frey just stated that,” Minneapolis does not, and will not, enforce federal immigration law.” this is after having had a very good conversation with him. Could somebody in his inner sanctum please explain that this statement is a very serious violation of the law, And that he is PLAYING WITH FIRE!
Leftists,
When your wifes boyfriend wants you to take one to the head, he doesn't mean ICE bullets...
Useful life tip.
MoonfireArt retweeted
Catholic and Protestant friends: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints are today mourning the death of their beloved leader, President Nelson. At the same time, they are in shock at a murderous assault at a church in Michigan. This is NO TIME for theological disputations! The only thing we should be saying right now is this: "We stand in loving solidarity with you, dear brothers and sisters."