@joequant

Physicist and Space Cadet @MIT @UTAustin

Hong Kong
Joined June 2009
This is starting to get more and more insane, and one thing that I have wondered is how do smart people end up arguing crazy stuff.
Logan Wright (Rhodium Group) on ChinaTalk — discussing Broken China — is the most narrative-altering conversation I've heard on China in years. The growth story is over. Not slowing. Over. podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas… Rhodium projected 1–2.5% growth for 2026. China is now tracking below that, probably negative in Q2 and Q3. This is down from 7–10%. COVID is no longer the explanation. The root cause is the credit boom that followed the 2008 financial crisis — the largest single-country credit expansion in at least a century. Bank assets grew by a third of global GDP in eight years. Credit flowed into shadow banks, property, and local government infrastructure. Property was the trigger, not the cause. Construction is down roughly 80%, sales roughly 60%, and nothing has replaced what was once 20–25% of GDP. Credit growth ran at 18% a year in 2007–16, then 9%, and sits at around 5% now. Consumer lending is shrinking. Wright's answer to the always impressive @Brad_Setser question — why no crash? Leaders chose slow decay over crisis, because in China "the path to crisis is reform." The Japan parallel holds, with one difference. China's binding constraint is fiscal, not monetary (interest rates). The government deficit already sits at roughly 9.5% of GDP. Pushing it higher adds little without fixing the system underneath. They make @michaelxpettis point: Weak domestic demand and the export surplus are one problem, not two. Industries that fed the housing boom now sell abroad at cut prices. The result is persistent deflation and a weaker real exchange rate. Calling it K-shaped misses the structural link. @jordanschneider, playing Xi: power means making everything the world needs and owning the key technologies, even if Chinese consumers pay for this. Wright answers: if most demand is abroad, China can only grow by taking others' export share, "fighting over a shrinking pie." The new strategic industries — EVs, AI, robotics — get enormous coverage but add up to roughly 6.3% of GDP and need capital, not workers. Youth unemployment passed 20% before Beijing stopped publishing the figures in 2023. Beijing appears to treat this as a cyclical problem. It isn't. AI won't close the gap even if its claimed Chinese leadership may think so. China's frontier AI models earn roughly $11bn combined. Its big tech spends roughly $135bn on AI infrastructure this year and roughly $160bn next — 15–20% of US spending — and that spending relies on high share prices. China is short of both chips and capital. Setser's pushback is the important counterweight: exports still grow at roughly 10% a year, twice world trade growth, and supply-chain control creates genuine leverage. Wright concedes this is the real threat — not China becoming number one, but locking in dependence. That distinction matters for how Europe should think about exposure. The conclusion Wright lands on: there is no longer a systemic economic rivalry. China will not outgrow the West. What remains are military and industrial threats — and leverage the West holds but isn't using. China needs Western markets more each year. That asymmetry is a policy tool, and it works better used collectively. One footnote worth flagging separately. Wright cites Kevin Rudd's claim that Beijing sees AI as the state's "visible hand", able to outperform markets. I looked up Rudd's Chinese sources. None of them say that — all preserve a role for markets. Motivated reasoning, or something else? I'll post a fuller analysis of Rudd's framing later.
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tech creates new businesses. So for example, a lot of restaurants don't have a cashier since everyone just orders and pays with smart phone. Adding AI will generate more opportunities for growth. Yes, all of this and tech will require capital.
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So maybe it is a good thing that people are now investing in tech and not real estate.
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I think the think tankers misunderstand the situation. Suppose the US didn't exist. Would China just stop developing tech. No. The purpose of Chinese tech and strategic development is to advance the interests of the Chinese nation, and what the US does, will not matter.
Understanding the U.S.-China Competition A new RAND report out this week grapples with a fundamental question that will shape the world in the coming decades: What is the scope and nature of the U.S.-China competition? China is indeed a formidable U.S. competitor, but it is not poised to dominate world politics. "The competition is clearly something other than a classic power transition," the authors write. "China is rising relative to the U.S. but not in a straight-line trajectory." The report identifies seven areas of power and influence that provide a useful framework for understanding the competition. Science and technology and domestic economics stand out as the two most critical areas. The authors also note that this is a contest to prove which country's system best provides for its own people during a time of turbulence and instability. They also warn that, despite limits to China's rise, Beijing is approaching this contest through a comprehensive campaign, within and across many elements of national power. Meanwhile, the U.S. has yet to fully embrace the scope of the contest or invest sufficiently in critical tools of statecraft. This has many implications for U.S. strategy. For example, the contest for influence in global digital, AI, and energy networks must be an important focus of strategic investments. Washington should also seek to strengthen its existing global power alignments, which remain a huge advantage. And focusing more on homeland resilience issues could put the U.S. on better footing, whether in peacetime or war. In its competition with China, the U.S. must preserve its vital interests without blowing up the relationship. The most plausible end state, the authors write, "is to create the conditions that encourage and require China to constrain its ambitions and aggressiveness—to become not a friend or ally but a great power more capable of controlled coexistence."
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China is not putting money into AI to beat the United States. China is putting money in development, because if Xi gives a speech telling 1.4 billion people that this is as good as it gets and its never getting better. then there will be a revolution.
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This is a very odd statement "The authors also note that this is a contest to prove which country's system best provides for its own people during a time of turbulence and instability."
Understanding the U.S.-China Competition A new RAND report out this week grapples with a fundamental question that will shape the world in the coming decades: What is the scope and nature of the U.S.-China competition? China is indeed a formidable U.S. competitor, but it is not poised to dominate world politics. "The competition is clearly something other than a classic power transition," the authors write. "China is rising relative to the U.S. but not in a straight-line trajectory." The report identifies seven areas of power and influence that provide a useful framework for understanding the competition. Science and technology and domestic economics stand out as the two most critical areas. The authors also note that this is a contest to prove which country's system best provides for its own people during a time of turbulence and instability. They also warn that, despite limits to China's rise, Beijing is approaching this contest through a comprehensive campaign, within and across many elements of national power. Meanwhile, the U.S. has yet to fully embrace the scope of the contest or invest sufficiently in critical tools of statecraft. This has many implications for U.S. strategy. For example, the contest for influence in global digital, AI, and energy networks must be an important focus of strategic investments. Washington should also seek to strengthen its existing global power alignments, which remain a huge advantage. And focusing more on homeland resilience issues could put the U.S. on better footing, whether in peacetime or war. In its competition with China, the U.S. must preserve its vital interests without blowing up the relationship. The most plausible end state, the authors write, "is to create the conditions that encourage and require China to constrain its ambitions and aggressiveness—to become not a friend or ally but a great power more capable of controlled coexistence."
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What about China decides what works for China and the US decides what works for the US. If something doesn't work then change it.
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So in other words Japan wants to be Israel (i.e. we can do whatever we want but we want the US to bail us out if we frick up). Good luck. Also, no plan B seems like a terrible way of running policy.
I heard one particular phrase over and over again from our Japanese counterparts while in Tokyo with Stanford's @HooverInst this month. My take on what "strategic autonomy and indispensability" means for U.S.-Japan defense ties and Indo-Pacific security:
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I remember Trump and Harris pictures were everywhere in 2024 and then they suddenly disappeared. The reason that Xi suddenly had his picture everywhere in 2016 and in 2021 was that he was running for General Secretary.
I remember Xi’s pictures were all over the place around 2015, then they suddenly disappeared…
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Xi was in a political power struggle with Jiang Zemin so he had to run for General Secretary in order to put his people in power. The pictures came down once Xi won another term in office.
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Also you need to read the car enthusiast bulletin boards. They argue that that Europe *has* forgotten how to make quality cars. The argument is that Europe has been infected by American finance thinking, and this is just killing traditional EU focus on quality and service.
Replying to @Brad_Setser
China ran a sustained trade deficit in cars with Europe from 09 to 19 -- but China didn't give up, and there has indeed been remarkable shift over the last 5 years. But Europe hasn't forgotten how to design and build quality cars ... China has a price edge, and a battery quality/ cost and supply chain edge. Time for action, not panic 2/2
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The reason China makes better cars is Darwinism. There are indeed Chinese cars that absolutely suck, but the auto environment is so hyper-competitive that the cream rises. I don't know how you would even *begin* to put in this sort of market dynamics in Europe.
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Also I would be more impressed if the AI came up with the experiments. Getting physical laws from predefined experiences is like sawing a lady in half. Yawnnnn....
If you’re not feeling the AGI, you’re not paying attention. The way economists think about the slow diffusion of general purpose technologies is distracting them from the real game. The scientific and technological frontier is structurally different from every other activity. The frontier is pushed not by diffusion at all, but by the leading research team. You can model it as a winner-take-all tournament game. But that pays too much attention to the economics and not enough to the science. What is happening here is that the scientific frontier is exploding outward. This process is clearly in its early days, given the rapidity at which AI are improving. But even if model level progress completely stalls, we’re still looking at a dramatic acceleration of the scientific frontier. As I have mentioned before, the most dramatic developments may well come from dedicated agent research swarms (with overlapping generations if the context problem cannot be solved) working on fundamental physics. So this is very exciting and scary to see at the same time. And AI-Newton is just a single agent. Imagine what a dedicated research swarm of 10,000 AI-Newton agents can already do. Even if there is no more progress, even if RSI fails, this is a runaway train.
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Now if you can saw a lady in half *lengthwise* okay I would be really impressed. Also if you can to the "pick a card" trick in a way that suggests that you can *really* read minds, then I would be really, really, really impressed. But right now, me looking at AI is like
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watching Penn and Teller. Also absolutely no idea if this will lead to AGI. So you can be the world's best magician and learn all of the tricks, that doesn't mean that you can actually read minds.
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Also this is not that impressive. The most useful part would be if they were able to get AI to feed the raw data into the AI.
If you’re not feeling the AGI, you’re not paying attention. The way economists think about the slow diffusion of general purpose technologies is distracting them from the real game. The scientific and technological frontier is structurally different from every other activity. The frontier is pushed not by diffusion at all, but by the leading research team. You can model it as a winner-take-all tournament game. But that pays too much attention to the economics and not enough to the science. What is happening here is that the scientific frontier is exploding outward. This process is clearly in its early days, given the rapidity at which AI are improving. But even if model level progress completely stalls, we’re still looking at a dramatic acceleration of the scientific frontier. As I have mentioned before, the most dramatic developments may well come from dedicated agent research swarms (with overlapping generations if the context problem cannot be solved) working on fundamental physics. So this is very exciting and scary to see at the same time. And AI-Newton is just a single agent. Imagine what a dedicated research swarm of 10,000 AI-Newton agents can already do. Even if there is no more progress, even if RSI fails, this is a runaway train.
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Again less impressed. So think Penn and Teller. The magicians Penn and Teller can do some really impressive things that look cool to the normies. The issue is that if you are a professional magician
If you’re not feeling the AGI, you’re not paying attention. The way economists think about the slow diffusion of general purpose technologies is distracting them from the real game. The scientific and technological frontier is structurally different from every other activity. The frontier is pushed not by diffusion at all, but by the leading research team. You can model it as a winner-take-all tournament game. But that pays too much attention to the economics and not enough to the science. What is happening here is that the scientific frontier is exploding outward. This process is clearly in its early days, given the rapidity at which AI are improving. But even if model level progress completely stalls, we’re still looking at a dramatic acceleration of the scientific frontier. As I have mentioned before, the most dramatic developments may well come from dedicated agent research swarms (with overlapping generations if the context problem cannot be solved) working on fundamental physics. So this is very exciting and scary to see at the same time. And AI-Newton is just a single agent. Imagine what a dedicated research swarm of 10,000 AI-Newton agents can already do. Even if there is no more progress, even if RSI fails, this is a runaway train.
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stuff that looks cool to the normies doesn't look very cool to the magician. So that paper doesn't look too impressive to me. The basic issue is that you have a physical simulation where there is a mathematical constraint. Once you figure out the constriants
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then all of the other rules fall out and having the AI figure out the basic principle from the experiement, isn't that impressive. It's like watching another magician saw a lady in half or make the statute of liberty disappear.
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