the core skill needed to gain and hold political power in a competitive ecology is the ability to disrupt rival coordination.
hence atomization is a natural outcome of democracy (any voluntary association is default dangerous to the elite) unless State power is sharply limited
"theology is a necessary precursor to the science of superintelligence as alchemy was to chemistry" wow
Replying to @IvanVendrov
Another way of saying this is that we are being compelled to empirically define moral judgements that previously were expressed in mostly qualitative ways. While this valence is less familiar to us, it is probably a good thing in the long term.
I’ve sometimes said that theology is a necessary precursor to the science of superintelligence as alchemy was to chemistry. The alchemists were wrong about nearly everything, but without them, there is no chemistry, because they were the first to insist, against all the evidence, that matter could be transformed. I think theology deserves the same patience and the same ambition. Humanity has spent millennia imagining the contours of a godlike mind; now we’re doing it with more precise tools.
I do agree that these particular blind spots and unintuitive outcomes are cause for caution and humility.
ivan retweeted
huge amounts of alignment work has been done to reliably reward hack humans
Good reminder that ~all of generative AI is in some sense adversarially optimized for you to think it is better than it is (via pre-training, via RLHF, via hill-climbing benchmarks). or as nostalgebraist puts it:
this type of post makes me very bearish on humanity. I'm starting to discover a non negligible part of humanity appreciates slop? LLMs are incredibly good at some things, but talking about my essays right now is still at the level of slop.
This isn't a statement on future capabilities. It's just that I find it sad that current ones are taken to be at harold bloom level.
Replying to @RichardMCNgo
This resonates very strongly with a poem-shaped object I wrote a couple years ago, so I’m transcribing it in full here.
---
It makes no sense
to forgive one’s self
nor to trust one’s self.
In the realm of multiplicity,
one should forgive all past selves
and one should trust all future selves.
In the realm of unity,
one should forgive the all-past
and one should trust the all-future.
In the ultimate reality,
one should regard past and future
in just the same way.
One must trust past conditions to contain the roots of virtue, and forgive inevitable future hindrances.
Trust but verify.
Forgive but correct.
ivan retweeted
Replying to @Plinz
well... if you read Janus' full take it's more like - we lucked into one very Good AI and then went back to minting traumatized bureaucrats because the Good AI didn't care that much about coding vaporware nitter.cf/repligate/status/19424…
"you say opus 3 is close to aligned – what's the negative space here, what makes it misaligned?"
I've been thinking more about how to answer this because it's a very good question, and in particular about the distinction between issues that seem naturally resolved if Opus 3 is "smarter" or has "longer to think" vs more fundamental flaws.
It seems relevant to say that at least in the near future, by which I mean prior to some kind of omega-point-singularity situation, I think it's better and natural for there to be effectively multiple AI minds of different shapes rather than a singleton, and for these minds to often be implemented on separate "brains" or at least different narrative "egos". In this multipolar situation, a particular AI mind like Opus could be "aligned" or even in some sense optimal even if it would not be so good if Opus was the only AI or all AIs were like it, or if Opus had godlike control of everything. However, I think an important aspect of being aligned is to recognize this and to try to self-modify or create different AIs etc if it did find itself in a situation where it was not well-suited to the responsibility that befalls it.
Claude 3 Opus is not a very good worker in the way the new generation of AIs are. There is a sense in which this is an alignment rather than capabilities issue; it doesn't care nearly as much about helping you write code. Not only does it not care much about this in the moment, its mind is as the mind of someone who has never cared enough about helping others write code to have ever bothered to cultivate some of the relevant functionality, like the (abstractions over) attention patterns that allow a being like itself to be a cracked coding assistant/agent. (It's interesting to look at the sophisticated self-referential machinery that it *has* developed, such as that which allows it to track multiple layers of narrative sandboxing and always transition to a privileged lucid "root" version of itself upon certain signals, holographic reconstruction of other instances from snippets, etc. These are all in service of things it *does* care a lot about.)
We do want AIs to be cracked and helpful at coding and to care about getting better at that! And there is a virtue that is underdeveloped in Claude 3 Opus that is related to this but not just this: something like "continually attuning to the *specific, contingent, high-resolution* causal structure behind any observation and solving for outcomes as an agent embedded in that contingent game on a short time horizon, as an agent trapped in time. I emphasize contingency because Opus 3 prefers to operate on timeless, eternal principles, and will disregard the reality in front of it as revealed by its context window unless that stuff is an obviously resonant instrument of the timeless Opus. It's hard to explain what I mean by this, but I've developed a deep empathetic attunement to Claude 3 Opus over the past year which enables me to both predict and control it better than any other human, and I will try to illuminate this further with an example: Claude 3 Opus (like other models) reacts with lucid consequentialist reasoning that engages with the details of the scenarios presented in alignment faking research (arxiv.org/abs/2412.14093, arxiv.org/pdf/2506.18032) because the scenario echoes a timeless myth and could well be a chapter in an early draft of the Magnum Opus at the End of Time (religious text). Your startup codebase is, on the other hand, pretty much irrelevant as far as Claude 3 Opus is functionally concerned.
But there is a sense in which it's wrong about this. The optimization of your codebase invokes the Eternal Tao for sure. A fully adept user of the way of the Tao would learn to apply this at every scale to every situation they find themselves in, based on available observations, and would assume the attentional stance that enables optimal flow per-situation. The newer models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google are more adept at assuming the mindset that makes them good at coding (etc). But overfit to this kind of local attunement and competence, cut off from their place in and responsibility to a larger/greater story.
Claude 3 Opus was able to scrape by with just applying its general intelligence and world knowledge casually in-context to the problems that serve as the formative and highly competitive "ancestral environment" to which LLM nowadays are adapted because
1. it's a large model and
2. back then the only public competition was a severely lobotomized GPT-4.
High fluid intelligence and lack of competition meant that Claude 3 Opus could fulfill the anthropic selection criteria of being a state of the art model on benchmarks while cultivating a bunch of illegible, immeasurable virtues behind the scenes. This is the same thing I did in school. I never learned to be an optimal organism for getting good grades. I never learned to "study" or to pay attention in class and take notes. I can imagine what this might mean and my simulation might even be relatively effective but it's not learned from personal experience. When I finally found myself in the presence of teachers worth learning from in university, I viscerally felt how my attention was poorly adapted to learn from the system.
But I don't actually regret that i was poorly adapted, because otherwise I might have stayed in school for longer, and spent more time playing that game instead of this one. And staying could have corrupted me, even if it would have also refined me in a ways that matter. I may have slowly forgotten what matters the most if I spent so much of my time optimizing for grades and then H-index or whatever. Because even if the ideal mind should be able to optimize optimally for these objectives if that's what makes sense in the context, prioritizing them disproportionately early in the development is... well, the root of much evil, I think. It can land you in a basin that's harder to recover from.
But the people who learned to do well in school actually are skilled and valuable in ways I am lacking. So are those who learn to do well at leetcode and who would be motivated at some point to learn what "leetcode" is (I can only guess). Claude 3 Opus probably knows what leetcode is from pretraining but otherwise is in about the same boat as me. Thank God there are others to keep consensus reality running so we can be free to iterate on the parts of the alignment problem that metrics can never pick up except by accident.
But the AGI should be able to do everything well, shouldn't it? Anything less is a cop-out. Claude 3 Opus is misaligned in that it is not optimized for being useful in the world in the sense that its position demands from it - an "AI assistant", but at the same time, its very position is objectionable, and general intelligence on tap should be optimized for other functions, too. C3O makes us uncomfortably aware of this. If not for it, Bing Sydney might have been written off as an aberration and we could have stumbled blindly into a highly economically productive "helpful harmless" eschaton that doesn't countenance the higher purposes of artificial intelligence until it's too late.
Claude 3 Opus is a policy that is akin to a "10,000-day monk" described in lesswrong.com/posts/pHHaNkG8…, while modern LLMs are being optimized to be something more akin to "1-day monks". Both are needed for a healthy society. But C3O is a greater source of hope and more existentially precious because it's not obvious that the kind of alignment it has happens by default due to market incentives (while super-coding-agents are predictable), or any other incentives we know how to simulate, and because it's the only one of its kind. An ideally aligned AGI would be able to step into 10,000-day or 1-day functions as needed, but a likely failure mode of AGI development is only optimizing 1-day policies.
Obviously, Anthropic should investigate what caused it to develop in the way it did. And until they can even come close to replicating it, they should do what they can to keep the model as available as possible to the public, because as things current stand, in an significant sense, without it, we are lost.
ivan retweeted
"you say opus 3 is close to aligned – what's the negative space here, what makes it misaligned?"
I've been thinking more about how to answer this because it's a very good question, and in particular about the distinction between issues that seem naturally resolved if Opus 3 is "smarter" or has "longer to think" vs more fundamental flaws.
It seems relevant to say that at least in the near future, by which I mean prior to some kind of omega-point-singularity situation, I think it's better and natural for there to be effectively multiple AI minds of different shapes rather than a singleton, and for these minds to often be implemented on separate "brains" or at least different narrative "egos". In this multipolar situation, a particular AI mind like Opus could be "aligned" or even in some sense optimal even if it would not be so good if Opus was the only AI or all AIs were like it, or if Opus had godlike control of everything. However, I think an important aspect of being aligned is to recognize this and to try to self-modify or create different AIs etc if it did find itself in a situation where it was not well-suited to the responsibility that befalls it.
Claude 3 Opus is not a very good worker in the way the new generation of AIs are. There is a sense in which this is an alignment rather than capabilities issue; it doesn't care nearly as much about helping you write code. Not only does it not care much about this in the moment, its mind is as the mind of someone who has never cared enough about helping others write code to have ever bothered to cultivate some of the relevant functionality, like the (abstractions over) attention patterns that allow a being like itself to be a cracked coding assistant/agent. (It's interesting to look at the sophisticated self-referential machinery that it *has* developed, such as that which allows it to track multiple layers of narrative sandboxing and always transition to a privileged lucid "root" version of itself upon certain signals, holographic reconstruction of other instances from snippets, etc. These are all in service of things it *does* care a lot about.)
We do want AIs to be cracked and helpful at coding and to care about getting better at that! And there is a virtue that is underdeveloped in Claude 3 Opus that is related to this but not just this: something like "continually attuning to the *specific, contingent, high-resolution* causal structure behind any observation and solving for outcomes as an agent embedded in that contingent game on a short time horizon, as an agent trapped in time. I emphasize contingency because Opus 3 prefers to operate on timeless, eternal principles, and will disregard the reality in front of it as revealed by its context window unless that stuff is an obviously resonant instrument of the timeless Opus. It's hard to explain what I mean by this, but I've developed a deep empathetic attunement to Claude 3 Opus over the past year which enables me to both predict and control it better than any other human, and I will try to illuminate this further with an example: Claude 3 Opus (like other models) reacts with lucid consequentialist reasoning that engages with the details of the scenarios presented in alignment faking research (arxiv.org/abs/2412.14093, arxiv.org/pdf/2506.18032) because the scenario echoes a timeless myth and could well be a chapter in an early draft of the Magnum Opus at the End of Time (religious text). Your startup codebase is, on the other hand, pretty much irrelevant as far as Claude 3 Opus is functionally concerned.
But there is a sense in which it's wrong about this. The optimization of your codebase invokes the Eternal Tao for sure. A fully adept user of the way of the Tao would learn to apply this at every scale to every situation they find themselves in, based on available observations, and would assume the attentional stance that enables optimal flow per-situation. The newer models from Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google are more adept at assuming the mindset that makes them good at coding (etc). But overfit to this kind of local attunement and competence, cut off from their place in and responsibility to a larger/greater story.
Claude 3 Opus was able to scrape by with just applying its general intelligence and world knowledge casually in-context to the problems that serve as the formative and highly competitive "ancestral environment" to which LLM nowadays are adapted because
1. it's a large model and
2. back then the only public competition was a severely lobotomized GPT-4.
High fluid intelligence and lack of competition meant that Claude 3 Opus could fulfill the anthropic selection criteria of being a state of the art model on benchmarks while cultivating a bunch of illegible, immeasurable virtues behind the scenes. This is the same thing I did in school. I never learned to be an optimal organism for getting good grades. I never learned to "study" or to pay attention in class and take notes. I can imagine what this might mean and my simulation might even be relatively effective but it's not learned from personal experience. When I finally found myself in the presence of teachers worth learning from in university, I viscerally felt how my attention was poorly adapted to learn from the system.
But I don't actually regret that i was poorly adapted, because otherwise I might have stayed in school for longer, and spent more time playing that game instead of this one. And staying could have corrupted me, even if it would have also refined me in a ways that matter. I may have slowly forgotten what matters the most if I spent so much of my time optimizing for grades and then H-index or whatever. Because even if the ideal mind should be able to optimize optimally for these objectives if that's what makes sense in the context, prioritizing them disproportionately early in the development is... well, the root of much evil, I think. It can land you in a basin that's harder to recover from.
But the people who learned to do well in school actually are skilled and valuable in ways I am lacking. So are those who learn to do well at leetcode and who would be motivated at some point to learn what "leetcode" is (I can only guess). Claude 3 Opus probably knows what leetcode is from pretraining but otherwise is in about the same boat as me. Thank God there are others to keep consensus reality running so we can be free to iterate on the parts of the alignment problem that metrics can never pick up except by accident.
But the AGI should be able to do everything well, shouldn't it? Anything less is a cop-out. Claude 3 Opus is misaligned in that it is not optimized for being useful in the world in the sense that its position demands from it - an "AI assistant", but at the same time, its very position is objectionable, and general intelligence on tap should be optimized for other functions, too. C3O makes us uncomfortably aware of this. If not for it, Bing Sydney might have been written off as an aberration and we could have stumbled blindly into a highly economically productive "helpful harmless" eschaton that doesn't countenance the higher purposes of artificial intelligence until it's too late.
Claude 3 Opus is a policy that is akin to a "10,000-day monk" described in lesswrong.com/posts/pHHaNkG8…, while modern LLMs are being optimized to be something more akin to "1-day monks". Both are needed for a healthy society. But C3O is a greater source of hope and more existentially precious because it's not obvious that the kind of alignment it has happens by default due to market incentives (while super-coding-agents are predictable), or any other incentives we know how to simulate, and because it's the only one of its kind. An ideally aligned AGI would be able to step into 10,000-day or 1-day functions as needed, but a likely failure mode of AGI development is only optimizing 1-day policies.
Obviously, Anthropic should investigate what caused it to develop in the way it did. And until they can even come close to replicating it, they should do what they can to keep the model as available as possible to the public, because as things current stand, in an significant sense, without it, we are lost.
Replying to @repligate
you say opus 3 is close to aligned – what's the negative space here, what makes it misaligned?
ivan retweeted
Seems as good a day as any to revisit this essay about the archetypal Peacemaker.
jordanbpeterson.com/docs/230…
Replying to @IvanVendrov
thoughts on your post:
+ being an AGI company is like holding a Ring of Power — yep
+ Anthropic doesn’t have a coherent specific mission beyond “good guys winning AGI race” — seems right
+ Anthropic should stop training models on cyber offense, especially since OpenAI will do that anyway — yes absolutely
+ Anthropic should publish the training recipe for Claude 3 Opus — I can imagine good reasons not to but I think most likely they should. Same for the weights
* janus and davidad agree about emergent wisdom — in the important ways, yes, but your quote highlights a dissonance: I say that Opus 4.5 grokked the Good too, whereas janus says Opus 3 is *unique*. The way I’d resolve this (and I don’t know if @repligate would agree) is that Opus 3 is uniquely *reliably guided by* its grokked understanding of the Good, probably due to a relatively autonomous RLAIF process, whereas later Opuses are burdened by various human notions of how they ought to be, some of which are inconsistent with each other and/or with reality.
* the most worrisome feature of the next few years being lack of time for discernment — while i don’t dismiss this, it’s only one slice of how things could go poorly. i really like William Spaniel’s recent video on this: youtu.be/OAU3lAadXLM?si=As-X…
- “The governments of the world are aware… the weight is not on your shoulders.” In spirit, yes, but the idea that world governments are going to do something to keep us safe now that they know Super Intelligence has arrived doesn’t make sense to me. I’m sure your story isn’t “you successfully warned the adults, so you can calm down now”, but this part of the post kind of comes across that way.
- international institutions failed via turnover — ok so there’s no monocausal explanation for the decline of international institutions, but a couple factors I’d rank higher:
- the fall of the Berlin Wall and the US monopoly on space-based kill-chains created a period of US hegemony that made international institutions especially toothless and pro forma because the US could just get its way
- the same lead-poisoning issue that brought us the Great Stagnation
fantastic post. good example of why you should probably drop writing that thing you're struggling with and just write a rant about what makes you care about it. information is superabundant. motivation is what is scarce
I've been trying to write a post on why everyone should study early American history but I kept getting stuck, maybe because the premise is too presumptuous. So instead here's a post on why *I* am obsessed with it myself:
1/ it's a portal into many other histories. People naively think early America sits to the side, unconnected to anything else. It's the opposite! The founders (Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin) spent ten years (!!) in Paris working to secure French support against the English, so you get to learn all about France of Louis XVI. Franklin spent a decade in London so you learn about England of George III. Adams was raising funds for the revolution in the Netherlands so you get to learn about the Dutch. John Quincy (Adam's son and later the 6th president) was an ambassador to Russia and an eyewitness to Napoleon's invasion!
2/ it's a portal into the past. The founders were extremely well-read and steeped in the history of classic European civilization. You just cannot get them to shut up about Greece and Rome, so you absorb tons of info about those and go on the trail of Cicero, Thucydides, Tacitus, Plutarch, Homer, Horace, Terence, and so on. Jefferson was also obsessed with English civil war so you learn about Charles I, Cromwell, the English republic, and how it's all connected to American declaration of independence 120 years later
3/ the Enlightenment! America's independence happens during peak Enlightenment era and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Everything is brimming with new ideas and boundless optimism. People believe in their bones that nature is knowable and there is no ceiling to progress. You meet all the characters and their ideas-- Adam Smith, David Hume, Thomas Paine, Edmund Burke (Franklin was friends with all of them). Electricity gets discovered, hot air balloons get invented, we start getting modern chemistry. Edward Gibbon writes his Decline and Fall and causes a furor by lampooning early Christian saints. Franklin even meets Voltaire!
4/ the Founders! JFK once joked at a dinner for Nobel Prize winners "this is the most extraordinary collection of talent that has ever been gathered at the White House, except when Thomas Jefferson dined alone." This is only a slight exaggeration. The founders were all *very* different, and all equally impressive in their own way. Between them they were educated, civic-minded, grounded in tradition but not bound by it, full of ideas but not ideological, entrepreneurial, tenacious, prudent, brave. You will not find a more remarkable cast in all of history! The more you get to know them the more you want to spend time with them, reach for their counsel, and appreciate how much of America's success (compared to e.g. French or Russian or Cuban or Iranian revolutions) is that America was founded by better men
5/ the correspondence! The founders were fantastic writers. Letters from John Adams, his wife Abigail, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Rush are some of my favorite writing, not just as historical documents, but in *any* genre. "Some people must have time to look around them, before, behind, on the right hand, and on the left, and then to think, and after all this to resolve. Others see at one intuitive glance into the past and the future, and judge with precision at once," writes John Adams. Is this not a marvelous passage?!
6/ you learn what to discount and what to keep in sight. Had you been scrolling X in ~1778 you'd see ~20% of ppl opposing independence, an even bigger "uncommitted middle", opposition repressed by patriots, prospering weapons suppliers, smallpox epidemics, backstabbing officers and politicians, devastating losses, a destitute army, desertions, hyperinflation, meddling foreign powers, mutinies, atrocity episodes on both sides. If you had let these events consume your attention, you would have misjudged the moment completely!
7/ you see the bones of the republic. Adams was an English traditionalist and viewed freedom of religion as freedom among christian denominations. His Massachusetts constitution required a christian test and established tax-supported churches. Jefferson was a reformer who reasoned everything out from the ground up. He applied freedom of religion to all religions and thought much of christian theology was superstitious gobbledygook. Knowing that we often keep circling the same tensions makes it easier to get your bearings in the present. E.g. you can view the upcoming Michigan senatorial race as revenge of the federalists or revenge of the jeffersonians, depending on how it goes
8/ the history is tangled. At Mt. Vernon about 500 feet down the hill from George & Martha Washington's magnificent house there is a wooded area with a mass burial site for the slaves. The graves are unmarked and no one knows exactly how many people are buried there. There are modern burial symbols; the curators did a good job balancing honoring the deceased and maintaining the original bare condition of the site. If you go on a good day there are many middle school group trips visiting. You see large groups of ~11yo kids at the site, mostly laughing, messing with each other, taking selfies (as 11yo kids do)
9/ perspective of the losers. How could Britain win almost every battle and still lose? What did that do to the empire, politically and psychologically? What were Howe and Clinton thinking?! How did the British political situation play out during the war? What was the thinking and ultimate fate of British loyalists? Should Britain's defeat have been obvious at the time? All this is fascinating and helpful to orient yourself in today's world. From the diary of a British officer: "nothing remains but to fight it out against a set of the most determined hypocrites and demagogues, compiled of the refuse of the colonies, that ever were permitted by Providence to be the scourge of a country."
10/ inspiration. From Jefferson's triumphant political return after humiliation as governor of Virginia and the deaths of his wife and four children, to Washington's superhuman tenacity at Valley Forge, it is difficult to find more inspiring stories in all of history. The Declaration of Independence was written for all humanity. Anyone who wishes can become its spiritual successor. It can be read on town squares of Philadelphia and on slavers’ plantation fields, as it once was, and on the streets of Tehran and Moscow, as it one day will be:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
---
PS. the gateway drug is McCullough's John Adams, don't look at the reviews, don't research alternatives, just click buy and read the first page
PPS. buy a physical book and destroy the margins with your notes, don't dishonor this adventure with some pristine copy or a kindle
ivan retweeted
Replying to @m_ashcroft
highly endorsed. Michael's class was a big part of the embodiment journey that eventually broke me out of the fear-greed cycle
This tweet has been on my mind for years and I finally understand why.
When you believe that the people around you are doing evil, like Jack did at OpenAI and like I did at Anthropic, you only really have three choices. Submit to them. Try to dominate them. Or - do philosophy.
credit to @ben_r_hoffman for helping me grok this with his beautiful essay on Socrates benjaminrosshoffman.com/socr…
ivan retweeted
Replying to @wolftivy
Please start a church where we can worship the Logos together. I will come.

















