Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker) header
Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker) profile picture

Host, The Joe Walker Podcast I'm hiring video editors & copy editors: https://nitter.cf/t.co/hv2NjzSFwg

Sydney
Joined May 2018
Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)Photo by Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) (@JosephNWalker)
Compute in Australia: Over the next month, I'll be running a series of episodes on my podcast focusing on the question of whether / how Australia should scale up a large domestic compute industry. Think many GWs of AI compute. I'll release episodes across the month, as I record them, rather than all at once, because things are moving so quickly. First up is Andrew Charlton, who is arguably the key member of the Australian government shaping our AI strategy. Will publish that in the next 24 hours. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don’t miss the episodes as they drop. Full note announcing the series here: josephnoelwalker.com/compute… See you for the first episode!
🤖 Made with AI
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US adults: right for the wrong reasons Site visitors: wrong for the right reasons Anthropic staff: wrong for the wrong reasons
Surveyed Anthropic staff's answers imply 17.1% GDP growth in 2030
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What would it look like if the data centre build-out actually lowered energy prices? Tim Nelson steps through the economic logic:
If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
LFG
If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
This sounds excellent and will address much needed questions - looking forward to listening!
If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
Very much enjoyed this one!
If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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Episode 2 here:
The geostrategic case for compute in Australia: Janet Egan (@janet_e_egan) has been doing a bunch of quiet work trying to nudge Australian policymakers to think more seriously about AI. She works at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, but was back home in Australia over the past month. Was lucky to catch her on the day before she returned to the US. We pressure-test various strategic arguments for a large-scale compute industry and talk about the steps we would need to take to enable it. Watch below, or wherever you get your podcasts! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction (0:00:33) – Lessons from the AdBlue crisis (0:09:02) – How seriously do Australian policymakers take AI? (0:12:48) – How much does frontier access matter? (0:28:55) – Compute-for-access (0:43:08) – What does sufficient leverage look like? (0:53:00) – What does AI sovereignty actually mean? (1:03:15) – Taiwan, undersea cables and data centres as military targets (1:10:30) – Could compute buy Australia influence over AI safety? (1:15:19) – Verifying international AI agreements (1:24:00) – Copyright: the red line? (1:37:49) – The maximally ambitious path
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If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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If Australia wanted to build out 10-15 GW of AI compute in the next three years, what would it actually take under the government's constraints of no net costs for consumers and 100% renewable backing? I had great fun trying to work this out with Tim Nelson, one of Australia's sharpest energy economists. The main idea we tested: what if the best place for training data centres is the outback -- far from cities, close to strong sun and wind, and maybe even off the main grid? Watch/listen below or on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, etc. Enjoy! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction. (0:00:42) – Could AI data centres consume half the grid? (0:06:13) – Can we power the build-out with only renewable energy? (0:15:44) – What could bottleneck the build-out? (0:24:36) – How data centres could lower power prices (0:31:58) – What smelters teach us about building renewables quickly (0:35:52) – How would Tim build 10-15 GW of AI compute in 3 years? (0:40:38) – Special compute zones in the outback (1:02:02) – Renewable energy certificates and the time-matching debate (1:12:01) – Nuclear; unintended consequences; Jevons (1:20:19) – Post-interview chat
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
What if the jagged frontier is mainly math + code (which you can push arbitrarily far with RLVR), and everything else starts to plateau because it is still bottlenecked by human generated data? Model performance in non-verifiable areas has kept improving steadily, albeit much slower than for math and code. But is that steady improvement a side effect of a higher G (itself driven by RLVR), or only a function of the amount of new human data getting injected into training (which is still continually happening on a massive scale)? A lot of things depend on the answer to this question
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
A continuation of this trend leads to AIs that automate some, but far from all, tasks now done by humans. Which keeps us in a familiar economic world.
12 months of progress on the jagged frontier: 1) AI got spikier, not rounder. 2) Maths, fluid reasoning, expert work: past human level. 3) There is almost no middle ground. Once a capability crosses human level, it often quickly becomes 100x+ cheaper than a human. 4) Cost keeps decreasing after capability increases stop. Language and knowledge look saturated but price keeps falling. 5) The gaps are not a budget issue. Human-level memory, self-monitoring and long-run planning are not for sale at any price. AI is now a superhuman specialist that is sub-human at running itself.
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
AI as Normal Tech is one of the most thoughtful, coherent pieces of policy writing in the last few years. If you haven’t read it, you should. Its policy recommendations get far less attention than its predictions though, and that’s warped the messages people take away from the essay. The authors do not argue that AI as Normal Tech = all will be well, do nothing. Instead they make the case that policy should focus on “reducing uncertainty” about the trajectory of the technology and its consequences + building resilience. I think that’s surprise a lot of people who like this general meme. It sure sounds a lot like most frontier AI policy proposals I encounter, and it would be vastly more ambitious than what we have right now. I’m not saying there’s no gap. But the fact that this essay has been cited to oppose many sensible, uncertainty-reducing policy proposals directly contradicts the conclusions of the authors. Incident reporting, whistleblower protections, transparency laws — all are cited as prime examples of good policy. And yet, more often than not, I hear this meme invoked to push back against the need for those exact policies. Did people just miss Section IV of the essay? No, I think what’s happening is that people want to read a careful, even-handed essay that is painstakingly precise to instead stand in for a general meme that supports their confidently held predictions for the future or to dunk on predictions they find implausible. But every bit of this essay shows that these authors actually mean what they say — they are carefully reasoners, who want to rigorously evaluate claims, and the same humility that leads them to push back on many claims of impending risk also make them admit their deep uncertainty about the future. They’re far less concerned about dunking on other people to prove they’re right, and much more focused on how to handle that uncertainty. So instead of rejecting policy efforts, they argue we should aim for policies that are “robust” to multiple assumptions and help us better understand the future. This seems empirically, normatively, and strategically compelling. The goal isn’t to bet all your chips on whatever belief you put 55% credence on. It’s to advance policies that handle the portfolio of possible outcomes well and help you adjust that portfolio more intelligently as you learn more. What this all means is that their predictive claims are less load-bearing than you might think. Sure, they predict AI will be a normal tech, but the practical upshot is that we aren’t sure and there are plenty of policy interventions that are robust to different empirical and normative beliefs. So we should pursue those! The reality is that most of those policies, which should represent some reasonable, moderate flank, remain unadopted, weak, or highly contested. And as valuable as arguing on Twitter is, the way to actually resolve these disputes is to build a policy system that allows us to learn and adapt, to “adjudicate it on the facts” so to speak. If people took that away from the essay, I think we’d be on a much better trajectory than we are now
I'm re-reading the AI As A Normal Technology piece and associated responses/commentary, and I really do feel like that worldview aged pretty well in many important respects. Too many people get hung up on vibe and the word 'normal'. normaltech.ai/p/a-guide-to-u…
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
Something that really annoys me that I encounter quite a bit is "intellectual partisanship" – expecting people not to publicly express views that are associated with the enemy, and expecting that if someone is on a certain side (eg, "pro-progress" or pro-building) they are messing up when they say things that are or appear to be inconsistent with that side. I think it's a terrible, mind-killed way to behave and think, and trying to enforce it in others is like pollution.
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In Melbourne with some time to kill tomorrow evening (>6:30pm, 2nd Sep) or Thursday arvo (2:30-3:30pm, 3rd Sep). Open to meeting anyone to talk about AI / compute / energy. Who should I meet? (Feel free to DM.)
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
This was great and definitely shifted my thinking by presenting the strongest argument for the geostrategic case. I am still not convinced it is worth it for the trade-offs (e.g. energy, social license, copyright).
The geostrategic case for compute in Australia: Janet Egan (@janet_e_egan) has been doing a bunch of quiet work trying to nudge Australian policymakers to think more seriously about AI. She works at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, but was back home in Australia over the past month. Was lucky to catch her on the day before she returned to the US. We pressure-test various strategic arguments for a large-scale compute industry and talk about the steps we would need to take to enable it. Watch below, or wherever you get your podcasts! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction (0:00:33) – Lessons from the AdBlue crisis (0:09:02) – How seriously do Australian policymakers take AI? (0:12:48) – How much does frontier access matter? (0:28:55) – Compute-for-access (0:43:08) – What does sufficient leverage look like? (0:53:00) – What does AI sovereignty actually mean? (1:03:15) – Taiwan, undersea cables and data centres as military targets (1:10:30) – Could compute buy Australia influence over AI safety? (1:15:19) – Verifying international AI agreements (1:24:00) – Copyright: the red line? (1:37:49) – The maximally ambitious path
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In Canberra with some time to kill tomorrow evening (>6:30pm, 1 Sep). Open to meeting anyone to talk about AI / compute / energy. Who should I meet? (Feel free to DM.)
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Australia has "a month or months, rather than a year" to sort out copyright if it wants to become the second home for major labs' AI training:
The geostrategic case for compute in Australia: Janet Egan (@janet_e_egan) has been doing a bunch of quiet work trying to nudge Australian policymakers to think more seriously about AI. She works at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, but was back home in Australia over the past month. Was lucky to catch her on the day before she returned to the US. We pressure-test various strategic arguments for a large-scale compute industry and talk about the steps we would need to take to enable it. Watch below, or wherever you get your podcasts! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction (0:00:33) – Lessons from the AdBlue crisis (0:09:02) – How seriously do Australian policymakers take AI? (0:12:48) – How much does frontier access matter? (0:28:55) – Compute-for-access (0:43:08) – What does sufficient leverage look like? (0:53:00) – What does AI sovereignty actually mean? (1:03:15) – Taiwan, undersea cables and data centres as military targets (1:10:30) – Could compute buy Australia influence over AI safety? (1:15:19) – Verifying international AI agreements (1:24:00) – Copyright: the red line? (1:37:49) – The maximally ambitious path
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Janet Egan has spent the last month back home in Australia talking to policymakers about AI. I asked her: Any differences between how Aus and US policymakers are thinking about AI? Janet: "The first thing that is so distinct between Washington, D.C. and Australia is how seriously people take AI." "... There are a lot of very senior people in positions in [the Australian] government who still aren’t grappling with the realities of AI progress."
The geostrategic case for compute in Australia: Janet Egan (@janet_e_egan) has been doing a bunch of quiet work trying to nudge Australian policymakers to think more seriously about AI. She works at the Center for a New American Security in Washington, but was back home in Australia over the past month. Was lucky to catch her on the day before she returned to the US. We pressure-test various strategic arguments for a large-scale compute industry and talk about the steps we would need to take to enable it. Watch below, or wherever you get your podcasts! Timestamps: (0:00:00) – Introduction (0:00:33) – Lessons from the AdBlue crisis (0:09:02) – How seriously do Australian policymakers take AI? (0:12:48) – How much does frontier access matter? (0:28:55) – Compute-for-access (0:43:08) – What does sufficient leverage look like? (0:53:00) – What does AI sovereignty actually mean? (1:03:15) – Taiwan, undersea cables and data centres as military targets (1:10:30) – Could compute buy Australia influence over AI safety? (1:15:19) – Verifying international AI agreements (1:24:00) – Copyright: the red line? (1:37:49) – The maximally ambitious path
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Joseph Noel Walker (in SF 7-12 Nov; DC 12-17 Nov) retweeted
This will be a cracker! Saved for my weekend listening.
I joined Joe Walker on his podcast to discuss the geostrategic benefits of hosting AI compute, and the opportunity for Australia.
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