Marketing Against the Grain Podcast (@matgpod) header
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A newsletter and podcast by marketers, for marketers. The tactics you won’t find in a recycled thread. 100K+ readers. A @HubSpot Media brand.

Joined August 2022
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If you're trying to rank in Google, you NEED to watch this:
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Marketing Against the Grain Podcast retweeted
This Is The Point celebrated its official launch last month. On The Air with HubSpot Media brought together journalists, media executives, tech leaders, and strategic partners at The Grand in Boston’s Seaport District, starting with a keynote from Jonathan Hunt, and ending with Alex and Sheel recording live. Thank you to everyone who came out.
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Kipp Bodnar and Kieran Flanagan almost quit YouTube 6 times before hitting 100K subscribers. They said: "You have to love it because it's a grind." "When you look back, you'll wish you had just done the long-term version of everything."
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Kieran Flanagan says the chatbot era is over — personal agents are a different animal entirely: "You basically would talk to the chatbot and it wouldn't do anything until you talked to it... for the most part you are extracting information from that chatbot."
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Kieran Flanagan says AI agents buy like engineers. They don't care about your warm branding or positioning. They only care about proof.
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Marketing Against the Grain Podcast retweeted
Distribution is the only moat left. Also, the state of distribution right now … - Spamming outbound until you get blacklisted - Community marketing across Reddit and other sites until you get banned - SEO clicks disappearing into the AI void - Results from getting listed in AI engines are untrackable. - Get ignored across social media because everyone wants to gorge on memes made by AI - Creators keep raising their prices because brands are desperate for growth. Distribution is a moat if you have some unfair advantage: network effects, an existing customer base, or a one-of-one founder. Without that, you’re just in the trenches like everyone else
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Kieran Flanagan says AI doesn't fail at creating content, it just creates commodity content: "It just creates commodity content and that is a great line from a writer called Nicholas Cole. Commodity content means it could have been said by anyone. It's not distinctly used."
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Amanda Natividad the co-author of Zero-Click Marketing, says: "Today, less than 32% of people who search actually click on a link in Google, and this shift is destroying your business."
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Dharmesh Shah, co-founder of HubSpot, says America just broke the all-time record for new company formations and 2026 is already on pace to break it again: "In 2025, we have the record highest number of new company formations in the United States than we've ever had in history."
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Kipp Bodnar says the old paid ads playbook is dead, AI targeting killed the edge, and creative volume is the only lever left: "all the advanced AI targeting is now so good that you don't need the data and the targeting nearly as much as you used to."
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Marketing Against the Grain Podcast retweeted
🎉 The Hustle and HubSpot Media are throwing a party in Boston and we want you to see you there. Come celebrate the launch of the brand new (and super secret) show: @thisisthepoint_. All your favorite @HubSpot Media people will be there, from shows like @myfirstmilpod, @starter_story, and @matgpod. RSVP here: luma.com/zkbbabtx
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This founder tested an agentic marketing team on a real company and gave his final verdict: "If you really take the time to build a marketing system fine-tuned to your business... it is going to really elevate your work and allow your marketers to work on higher value tasks."
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Barbara Jovanovic who runs a $1M/year marketing agency solo says: "If you just don't really have anything interesting to say, AI is not going to help there. It's not really going to give you an idea or like a hook or a point to your post. It's just not going to do that for you"
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Marketing Against the Grain Podcast retweeted
I'm back on @HubSpot's Marketing Against the Grain pod! We compared my process for managing clients & running an agency in 2025 to what I'm using now. Literally two different worlds. 2025: using ChatGPT as a chatbox and thinking great prompts are the solution 2026: agentic systems running the business and holding all context about my clients The massive model improvements allowed me to: - 5x the agency in a year - take on more clients than I thought was possible - scale without having to hire anyone I'll leave the episode in the comments (comment if you want the direct link to the .md file)
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Barbara Jovanovic who runs a $1M/year marketing agency with zero employees says: "That's the most important thing about dealing with agents. You have to show them what good looks like for you specifically and for your client."
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Marketing Against the Grain Podcast retweeted
After talking with many high-growth B2B companies, here is the modern B2B marketing playbook. Paid Advertising > target intent, creative tests at scale, data models for attribution (indirect/direct ROAS) + elasticity. SEO/AEO > target transactional keywords for Google’s traditional search engine, a broad set of prompts for AI engines, and a big focus on citations. Affiliate is increasingly being folded in here to help broaden citations to improve visibility in AI engines. Social > primary focus is growth through the founder’s social + select employees. Employees with an existing following are a bonus. Social strategy for branded channels is more personality-driven; short-form video is critical. Creators > is a key part of a modern distribution strategy. Mostly done via existing platforms like Passionfroot. Some companies create bespoke programs, mixing incentives through tiers based on audience size. Lifecycle > very AI-led. Data quality is a must. Data enrichment is a big part of the role. Establish fit/intent models. AI-SDR for website demand capture. AI prospecting for incoming demand and expansion. AI-outbound for net new ARR (quite saturated). Product marketing > positioning has never been more important. Needs to be memorable and consistent across channels. Incredibly close partnership with product. Turn launches into a distribution engine. Be great at content; ensure product story is visible across every channel. Creative > visual identity that rises above the AI slopification of everything. Creative engine that allows the team to focus on tier 1 work and others to self-serve everything else. Brand > build and capture attention. Inspired by modern B2C playbooks vs. traditional B2B playbooks. Bring product to life in creative ways. Find ways to create in-person moments of magic via communities, in-person events, meetups, etc. Obsess over talent; have super-ICs who can do more with AI, and a rigorous operating model that runs in sprints and is outcome-focused.
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Sundas Khalid an ex-Google data scientist says: "ChatGPT launched something called ChatGPT Operator. They literally called it data analyst and I tried it out and it was horrible. It was not good at all."
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The CMO of Liquid Death says: "I'm only looking for home runs. We are a brand that is in hyper growth mode. I'm not looking for 5% gain. I'm looking for double digit gains..."
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This ex-Google data scientist says stop fearing ChatGPT and start treating it like an intern.
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Sundas Khan has a message for every data analyst, data scientist about AI: "For all my data analysts and data scientists and data engineers watching, your jobs are saved. They're not going away. Yes, we're going to change how we do things, but you're not getting replaced."
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Kyle Jepson says ranking #1 on Google used to mean guaranteed traffic. Now it's a coin flip. "If you rank number one in old school Google search, you have about a 17 to 36 percent chance of being cited as an answer."
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